Hi, Monsterwax-
Thanks for your reply. I appreciated hearing from you. There a couple of small matters, in your letter, that I feel a need to respond to.
You wrote:
<< several of Alberto's claims which appeared false when he first made them have since become a matter of public record. I'm referring to the problem of priests molesting young boys >>
The problem of pedophile clergy is actually a much bigger problem among Protestant ministers and preachers than it is with Catholic priests.
According to a study by Philip Jenkins, Ph.D., a historian at Penn State University, approximately 10% of Protestant clergy have been involved in sexual misconduct, and about 3% are pedophiles.
By comparison, among Catholic clergy, about 1.7% have been involved in sexual misconduct, and 0.2% are pedophiles.
Jenkins' study ("Pedophiles and Priests") was published by Oxford University Press in 1996. By the way, Dr. Jenkins is a Protestant, not a Catholic.
Very similar figures can be found in the book "Ministry and Sexuality" by Lloyd Rediger (Minneapolis, Fortress Press, 1990), p. 55. I will add that Fortress Press is a Lutheran publishing house.
You also mentioned:
<< the Pope's collaboration with the Nazis during and after WWII >>
There is not a shred of evidence of this. If you are referring to Cornwell's book ("Hitler's Pope"), it has been thoroughly debunked by nearly every reputable historian to have reviewed it.
For some factual information concerning the Catholic Church and the Pope Pius XII during World War II, see the following links:
http://members.aol.com/cmcginmd/PiusXII_Holocaust.htm
http://expage.com/page/nazidiary
http://expage.com/page/complete
http://www.catholic.com/ANSWERS/CHURCH_DOCS/we_remember.htm
<< These seemed like unthinkable mean-spirited lies twenty years ago, but not anymore.) Alberto also predicted the Pope would publicly apologize for the Holocaust and Inquisition decades before he actually did >>
The pope asked for God's forgiveness for the wrongoing of *all* Christians toward Jews and other minorities.
<< So you have to admit, it's a little difficult to laugh off ALL his claims >>
Personally, I don't laugh at ANY of the claims made by Chick or Alberto. Too many people believe them, no matter how outlandish or untrue.
<< A good source of information representing the other side is "50 Years in the Church of Rome" by Charles Chiniquy (reprinted by Chick Publications) >>
Reading what Chiniquy says isn't really helpful, though, for finding out\ the truth about _anything _ whatsoever.
Chiniquy seems to be a grand-scale liar, the sort Mary McCarthy was thinking of when she remarked about a certain author: "Every word he writes is a lie, including 'a', 'and', and 'the'."
<< Chiniquy was the former Catholic priest who hired Abraham Lincoln as his lawyer when sued by the Catholic Church, a move he claimed eventually lead to Lincoln's assassination >>
This is a good example. Chiniquy was NOT sued by the Catholic Church.
The lawsuit was brought by one Peter Spink, a man who had been slandered by Chiniquy from the pulpit. The case had nothing to do with religion, or the Church, or Chiniquy's reputation. Chiniquy, on the basis of a totally unfounded rumor that he had heard, falsely claimed that Spink was secretly buying a local forest, and was then planning to charge the people of the community for the timber that they had previously been able to get for free. The case did not even result in a trial. The entire matter was resolved through a settlement in which both parties simply agreed to drop all accusations against each other.
Chiniquy also claims to have developed a lifelong friendship with Lincoln after the case ended, but there is actually no evidence that Lincoln ever spoke to him again.
Chiniquy also alleges that Lincoln had hostility against the Catholic Church and believed that it was the institigator of the U.S. Civil War. There is actually no evidence that Lincoln *ever* said an unkind word about the Catholic Church. To the contrary, Lincoln actually sent a representative to Rome for the specific purpose of asking the pope to appoint an American cardinal!
I am currently working on a website debunking Chiniquy's multitude of false claims concerning his life and times, as well as his allegations regarding Lincoln and the assassination. I'll send you the URL as soon as the site is complete.
I will be putting online the full text of a 1908 book "Pastor Chiniquy: An Examination of his 'Fifty Years in the Church of Rome' " (64 pp.) by Sydney J. Smith, as well as a 1976 article from the Journal of the Illinois State Historical Society, "The Lincoln Writings of Charles P.T. Chiniquy" by hisorian Joseph George Jr., Ph.D. (needless to say, both of these works totally debunk Chiniquy's claims).
Monsterwax, I think that your website is excellent and performs a valuable public service. I am not asking you to accept my statements as being the only true version of all the aforementioned events. But, please, Monsterwax, be careful before stating things as *fact* which are clearly open to honest dispute.
Yours sincerely,
-Jim
Hey Jim,
I always enjoy hearing the other side of the debate, even if I don't always agree with it. Just so you know, I don't believe all of Alberto, but I know much of his historical claims about the Church are taught as standard Western Civ in college. Deciding where the fact ends and the fiction begins is the tough part.
My standard policy on Alberto is the same as the rest of Chick: Since we're fans, we give Chick the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. If someone proves he's wrong about something, fine. We'll just move it over into the humor column. Keeping track of Chick's mistakes is one of the guilty pleasures of Chick collecting!
It's ironic how many people won't take Chick at his word, but are willing to believe his critics at THEIR word. Gary Metz is a classic example. We can't verify ANY of his facts, even the ones that should be easy (like locating the death certificates he claims to have copies of). Other organizations have also tried to verify his material (especially the Alberto warrants) without any success. We also know Gary tried to get a job at Chick publications but was turned down before he wrote his articles. That may provide a motive for his attacks on Chick. When you can send us certified photocopies of the warrants or death certificates, we'll post them. I'll even reimburse the $6 the bureau of vital statistics charges for such items. Even Chick managed to obtain some basic Spanish documents in Alberto. How hard can it be for Metz to provide certified documents from the USA? Until then, it's just he said/ she said.
Regarding the Catholic priests and child molestation. I have no problem believing your figures. But that's not the point. Protestants may do it twice as often, but it's the Vatican that denied it for years and claimed it was anti-Catholic lies until they started losing in court. It proves that when they close ranks and claim conspiracy, they are not always being truthful. That doesn't mean that any accusation is therefore true, but it raises suspicions.
Regarding the collaboration with the Nazis. The Vatican helped Nazis escape to South America after the war. This has been covered many times. Sam Donaldson interviewed officials about it on Primetime Live and even went to South America and spoke to one of the former Nazis. The Vatican provided contacts, false documents, and sanctuary for these wanted criminals until they escaped. This underground railroad was called the "Rat Line". But long before the networks covered it, it was publicly exposed by Alberto and Jack Chick-- yet most people dismissed their claims as anti-Catholic propaganda.
To what extent Pope Pius XII helped Hitler is still being debated. He did sign a concordat with Nazi Germany and he clearly didn't use his considerable power or money to fight Hitler. The Vatican played it safe at best. I'm not saying I blame the Vatican, because it was behind enemy lines and it stood to lose a great deal, but to pretend the accusations of collaboration are completely debunked would be an obvious exaggeration.
I was unaware that the Pope's apology was also being made on behalf of the Protestants. I confess, I find that a little insulting. It's also somewhat disingenuous, parsing words and burying the real meaning like that. What gives the Pope the authority to apologize for Protestants? He doesn't represent our denomination. (Except maybe in his dreams.) The only thing my Church did during the Holocaust was provide funerals for Hitler's enemies and bless the troops who went off to fight the Axis. I'm not expecting the Jews to thank us, but they shouldn't expect an apology for America saving them.
What about the Inquisitions? I certainly hope the Pope wasn't apologizing for the Protestants then too. We were the victims! And far more Protestants were murdered in the various Inqusitions than Jews during the Holocaust. Say, where's our Inquisition Memorial in Washington DC anyway? Or better yet, the Vatican?! And what about our Reparations? If anyone is directly responsible for the Inquisition and can afford to pay, it's the Vatican. (But I won't hold my breath...)
But seriously, back to Chiniquy: I was under the clear impression that there was a law suit against Charles Chiniquy and that Lincoln was his lawyer. Once again, it seems to be a he said/ she said sort of thing. Chiniquy was a former Catholic priest and I don't think anyone disputes that. I only suggested his book so that folks who wanted to read more about the plot to kill Lincoln could find out what the alleged motive was. I don't personally think the Pope ordered it anymore than I think the CIA (Counter Inquisition Agency) killed Kennedy (a good Catholic). But many people do and there is circumstantial evidence that feeds these theories. And they do make fun reading!
So there is another side to these issues, a serious side that deserves much more time and space than Chick tracts can provide. You sound like you're doing your bit with your upcoming Chiniquy site. If you wish to provide me the link when it's done, I'll be glad to post that too.
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revised 12.19.00