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More Catholic/protestant disussion with Patrick. My comments IN BOLD CAPS this time.

(not to shout, but to help seperate the long text.)


On the next point, as far as our religion. The 1st Christian Church is the same as the True Church, which is the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Our founder is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We created the Holy Bible, we were around since the dawn of Christendom. We are the guardians of Holy Scripture and Holy Law.

IN YOUR MIND YOU ARE. BUT WHAT IF, LIKE THE JEWS BEFORE THEM, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH LEFT THE TEACHINGS OF THEIR OWN SCRIPTURES AND LET TRADITION AND CHURCH AMBITION DOMINATE WHAT THEY PREACHED? SOME BELIEVE THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED, AND THE PROTESTANT CHURCHES WERE BORN TO TAKE UP THE TORCH THAT THE VATICAN DROPPED. GOD DECIDES WHO REPRESENTS HIM, NOT THE RABBIS OR POPES OR PREACHERS.

John 6:54 and all the surrounding verses are the words of Christ Jesus Himself.

You refuse to believe the words of Jesus, and instead will tell your followers what Jesus was meaning to say. I thought true fundamentalist believed in the literal translation of scripture? If you will note that everyone left Jesus at this teaching, but the 12. He said to them, will you not leave me too?

NOTE: Jesus did not run after the other saying...no, no, no, what I mean to say was...

OR: Is Jesus just too confusing that we needed people (I assume) like yourself, to set us straight?

Paul said if you do not acknowledge the Body and Blood when you take communion it will be like eating and drinking damnation upon yourself, as many of the people were getting sick and dead.

Jesus is not the rock, He is the Cornerstone. Peter is the Rock, and on this rock I will found my Church, and not even the gates of Hell will prevail against Her. Jesus then gave PETER the keys to Heaven and said, what ever you lose on earth, will be loosed in Heaven. What ever you bind on earth will be held bound in Heaven. Jesus also telling His 12 to forgive men their sins. What ever you retain on earth will be retained in heaven. What ever you lose on earth will be loosed in Heaven.

Now to have the gift of granting Absolution you must be a Priest. To be a Priest you must have the hands of one of the 12, or one of the ordained by the 12, laid upon your head. It is Jesus that absolves sin in the confessional, not the Priest, but it is through His Priest that this happens. Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.

NEXT, as far as Holy war goes. This does not negate the fact that the Holy Catholic Church is still the Church founded by Jesus on the Rock which is Peter, the first Bishop of Rome, the Holy See, the Vicar of Christ, the first Pope.

War was the way of the world back then, much more then, then it is now. However wrong it was, it was not looked upon as wrong at the time. But it is a black eye that we have acknowledged as wrong and asked the worlds forgiveness, but you people do NOT forgive. You hate. If God can forgive the Jews for abandoning Him time after time, he can forgive us just as many times.

WHAT IS THIS "YOU PEOPLE" THING? BE CAREFUL ABOUT PRESUMING TO TELL ME WHAT I THINK OR HATE. YOU ARE STEREOTYPING, WHICH IS THE FIRST STEP TO DEHUMANIZING ANY PARTICULAR GROUP.

The Jews are STILL God chosen people. He made a convent with them that He will NEVER break. Even with the formation of the Catholic Church, the Jews are still God chosen. We have just been graphed into the vine. The Church does not hate the Jews, we never supported Hitler, Stalin, or Mussolini. When Mussolini converted to Fascism, the Pope of that time condemned him, as well as Hitler and Stalin.

THIS DOESN'T JIVE WITH HISTORICAL FACT. THE VATICAN DID NOT TAKE A HARD STAND AGAINST MUSSOLINI OR HITLER. TO BE FAIR HOWEVER, I THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT FOR A TINY COUNTRY LIKE THE VATICAN TO OFFEND GERMANY AND ITALY'S GOVERNMENT, CONSIDERING THEIR LOCATION.

The "facts" of the Chick Tracks are based upon lies and hate, not love and truth.

CHICK CERTAINLY SPINS THE FACTS, BUT YOU HAVE DEMONSTRATED A SIMILAR TALENT, ALBEIT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION. TO EACH THEIR OWN.

Most of you radicals are also fundamentalist that believe only in the KJV of the Bible.

NOW I'M A RADICAL AND FUNDY? HAW HAW HAW! SHOWS WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT ME.

Silly as it sounds, since after the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, you know that the Old Testament had then the 7 books as well as the deleted chapters of Daniel, that the KJV removed. Luther also wanted to remove the book of James, but his hands were tied. He also took a bride that was 15 years old when he was 50, she was a nun he had been sleeping with before he left the Church. Luther was a very sick and angry man.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE, IT SOUNDS LIKE CHARACTER ASSASSINATION TO ME. BUT LET'S PRETEND FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT THAT IT IS TRUE. WHAT DOES IT PROVE? ONLY A FOOL WOULD PRETEND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DIDN'T HAVE SERIOUS CORRUPTION ISSUES AT THAT TIME. LOOK AT WHO SOME OF THE "CELIBATE" POPES AND PRIESTS WERE SLEEPING WITH. AND THE RECENT CHILD RAPES BY GAY PRIESTS THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS TRYING TO SETTLE NOW. DOES THAT UNDERMINE EVERYTHING ELSE YOUR CHURCH HAS TO SAY? I WOULD ASSUME YOU WOULD THINK NOT.

The KJV was very good when it was written, and when it was first written, it contained ALL the books of the Holy Scriptures. Later there were 7 books removed and deleted chapters from others. Also, the translation if faulty. This is just a fact.

The Bible in any form is not the "Truth" alone. It is not the "Word of God" however it contains great truths and it contains the Word of God. Even the Bible says that the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of the truth, not the Bible.

The Catholic Church hold Holy Scripture equal with Holy Tradition.

I WOULD AGREE WITH MUCH OF WHAT YOU JUST SAID. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PROTESTANTS AND CATHOLICS.

Catholics had nothing to do with the NIV or and NKJV. They are both Protestant creations and still have removed books and chapters from them. If you ever want to know if a book is from the True Church, you will find on the copyright page the permission to print by a Bishop of the Catholic Church.

I am of the belief that if you are a Chick Track supporter, you must believe in everything they write. This is a very safe assumption. If you care to research history, you will find a basis of truth and fact that is indisputable from any reputable source.

AH, WELL THIS IS WERE YOU HAVE GONE ASTRAY. I DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING CHICK TRACTS SAY. LIKE MANY OF THE TRACT READERS, I JUDGE EACH STATEMENT FOR MYSELF AND DECIDE FOR MYSELF. THIS MAY HAVE BEEN A SIN IN THE MEDIEVAL CATHOLIC CHURCH (TO QUESTION CHURCH DOGMA) AND LED TO TERRIBLE CONSEQUENCES, BUT FORTUNATELY, WE ARE FREE TO THINK FOR OURSELVES WITHOUT PUNISHMENT. IF YOU EXPLORE THE SITE MORE FULLY, YOU'LL FIND LOTS OF CHALLENGES TO MANY OF CHICK'S STATEMENTS.

Jack Chick hates Catholics such as Martin Luther did, whose last words were "May the Lord fill you with peace and hatred for the Pope"

THAT SOUNDS LIKE AN URBAN MYTH TO ME, BUT EVEN IF IT WAS TRUE-- I'M NOT A LUTHERAN SO IT'S NO SKIN OFF MY NOSE.

Hating something as you do is not a sign of the Spirit of God dwelling within you. But we all make mistakes. As history as taught us, we ALL make mistakes. Yes, even us Catholics. Since we have been around since the dawn of Christianity, we are bound to have many more than your religion of maybe a decade or as much as 250 years.

I'M CURIOUS WHY YOU KEEP CALLING EVERYONE ELSE A HATER. I DON'T KNOW IF CHICK HATES CATHOLICS, BUT I'M DEAD CERTAIN THAT I DON'T. PERHAPS YOU JUST HATE HAVING OTHERS CRITICIZE YOUR BELIEFS. THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE, BUT IN A GROWN UP DEMOCRACY, YOU NEED TO GET USED TO DIVERSITY OF OPINION.

I hope you are willing to learn, I hope your eyes can be open as well as your heart. If your mind is closed, then this will be your thought: "no matter what this guys says, I will never believe that the Catholic Church is anything more than Satan's church, and the Pope is the antichrist"

However, if you are willing to be open to even the slimiest possibility that the Catholic Church might not be this terrible thing that you read about in Chick Tracks, then lets talk more. - Patrick

YOU'RE IN LUCK. I'M NOT ONLY OPEN TO THAT POSSIBILITY, I DO BELIEVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS NOT A TERRIBLE THING. I KNOW IT'S DONE TERRIBLE THINGS IN THE PAST, AND I DISAGREE WITH MANY OF IT'S TEACHINGS TODAY, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY ARE TERRIBLE. ON MY LIST OF THINGS TO CHANGE IN THE WORLD, THEY ARE NOT EVEN NEAR THE TOP. BUT THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT... AND THERE IS IN PROTESTANT CIRCLES AS WELL.

Return to Pat's letter in Chick Memories 9.



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